Hydrogen


I hate that I’m even writing this post but I see no way out.  I have been participating on many different forums on the Internet where many people are honestly trying to get information on running their cars off hydrogen.  I’ve tried to share my experience with testing some of these designs in order to prevent people from wasting their time and money on devices that will not work.  Yet time and time again, I have gotten kicked off the forums and all my posts removed.

Not because I was wrong, and not because I started fights or was ugly to people, but simply because I stated experimental facts instead of trying to sale bull shit devices that will never work.  Its become obvious to me that this site and its content will eventually be alone in providing an open forum for people to discuss these issues.

So far the yahoo group for hydroxy@yahoogroups.com and OUPower com have both performed this sad form of moderation.  Neither took the time to explain to me why they did it, or what exactly I said that was so wrong.  In fact, they removed the threads in the middle of honest conversations so that their own forums and discussions don’t make sense any more.

Its actually quite funny at how thick, ignorance is on this subject, and how the few crooked people are able to guide others, trying to learn, into spending time and money on things that won’t work.  The few of us that actually test what they are saying, and try to share the truth, are cut off at the knees, unable to help anyone out.  So the only hope that exists is for us to keep testing and sharing information here.  Hoping that others in search will happen upon this site in order to gain more valuable information and of a more honest nature.

–glenn hancock

Before I start let me say that I’m not giving up.  I also still believe that Hydrogen can be used in conjunction with your current gas engine to improve mileage by 10-20% if that interests you.  However, for those that claim they are running their car off Hydrogen while splitting it using electrolysis.  Well, they are just FOS!

The current requirements for a 4 cylinder engine are greater than 100L of Hydrogen gas per minute and the best performing cells are producing around 2-3L / minute.  There are those claiming to get 15-20L per minute but I’ve not seen any real proof of these claims.  I’m still investigating the claims to see if there exists any merit, but lets not hold our breath.

Lets just say you were capable of producing 100L of gas per minute.  Can you fathom this quantity?  This is a massive amount of gas and it needs to vary from second to second.  Idle versus 3000rpm versus 4000rpm and back to idle.  So the system required to manage all of these processes would be extensive.  You’d have to have a regulator of some sort, a pressure tank and some type of delivery system to sense pressure on the gas peddle to deliver gas to engine in appropriate amounts.

Hydrogen burns much much faster than gasoline does, so you’d have to advance your timing quite a bit which is all doable.  In fact, let me say, that running the system off of hydrogen is absolutely possible.  I’m not trying to say that you can’t do that part.  However, if you go back and review all of the designs currently available on the web for sale and for free, you’ll noticed none provide any workable solution to the delivery problem.

Stanley Myers magic was in his death.  I honestly believe, that had he not died, he’d be a serious joke by now.  I wish this were not true but after the amount of serious testing I’ve done and serious attempts at getting anything at all to work, I’m more than ever convienced that he wasn’t doing what he stated.  The fact that he had to give back investor money because he couldn’t show the court that his device worked speaks volumes for what he was about.  The fact that NO ONE has built a system based on his patents that works, screams even louder.

Am I giving up?  Absolutely not!  My only point to writing this entry is to state that I am going to be changing my direction soon.  I have a lot of other ideas and am going to start looking into some of them.  The main thing at this point is building a series cell Hydrogen generator that has been said to produce hydrogen gas in greater volumes than that allowed by the current laws of Physics. 

But more importantly I believe, is that I’m going to start working on a design of the Tesla turbine engine and looking into whether it works first of all, and secondly whether its possible to power it with hydrogen combusion.

Another prospect that I’m looking into, that I”ve been thinking about for some time is that of static electricity and whether its possible to harness any of it for the purposes of powering an AC Generator.  There are plenty of other areas we can look to for power.  The fact is, we’ve been shoe horned into cars and their Internal Combusion Engines (ICE’s) and no ones has tried to break the mold to look at other possible means of transportation.

Can it be done?  I’m not sure in the least, however, that is half the fun!  Searching for the imposible.  What do you think people said when Tesla started working on his first AC electricity concepts?  The fact is that our universe has more unexplained than explained phonemena and for us to even think for a second that we have it all figured out is beyond stupid.  To move to the next step, Tesla stepped into uncharted ground and look where we are.  Over 100 years later we’re still using his electricity. 

Is it not time to take the next step?

–glenn hancock

Today I did a series of tests with KOH and the same cells as the previous tests.  Each recorded and calculated using identical methods.  The results were almost identical and in fact were so close that you might as well say they were.  Just as an example, the first cell had a ml/W/hr of 67 with plain tap water and 64 with KOH.  Now of course, the volume was much better but having an amperage of over 19A makes for a problem in and of itself.  So while we did create a massive amount of gas comparitively speaking relative to time, our efficiency was almost dead even.

The point is, KOH and most likey any electrolytic solution should be added as needed to improve time to generate KOH, but do not expect your efficiency to improve.  Its also worth mentioning that my 2004 F-150 V8 charging system couldn’t keep up with an almost 20A requirement on the cell and the voltage dropped to around 11V constant.  I’m sure that, with that kind of load it would only be a matter of time before the alternator began to complain.

At the present moment I’m thinking that anyone using simple plates and claiming to drive their car off of them are not being very straight forward.  So the next tests I plan to run except to verify these are going to be on the new series capacitor idea to see if they are any better.  I have to get a bit of metal first so it may be a few weeks before I can do any more testing.

–glenn hancock

Over Unity is a concept that would allow for a perpetual motion machine.  For example: an engine running off a magnet that needed no input, but would run forever.  But is this an example?

Now that we think we understand what the term Over Unity means, I will dispatch with why I think it is one of the most over used and least understood terms of our day.  There are literally thousands of people all across the world that use this term to talk about Hydrogen production, engines running off magnets and on and on and on.  It is my opinion that these people need to take a serious look at what the word really means, and then ask themselves if they somehow think they have accomplished it.

Before we get that far however, lets start with a basic Physics lesson to describe what science believes to be the clock that makes the universe tick.  At its most basic level, every compound ( or every thing you see, touch, breath and sense ) is made up of very basic elements.  Each element is made up of protons and neutrons in its nucleus and electrons that flow around the outsides.  The protons are always constant in these elements and there are a total of 112 known substances and some are man made and don’t actually occur in nature.  But using these 112 things and combining them, we can make every known substance known to mankind.

An element of these atoms are their electrons.  Electrons are what flow and provide the negative potential to every element.  In a balanced element we have equal numbers of protons and electrons.  However, in this state, the electrons (depending on how many electrons they have) may not be so happy.  All atoms seem to want their outside shells, called valence shells, to be full of electrons.  From what we understand about the tiny things we can’t see, is that they will do almost anything to have this happen.  But the electrons are where most of the magic happens.

Electrons can be free to fly through space, or they can be grabbed up and used by atoms, either as free electrons or perhaps borrowed from another atom to combine and create another substance.  So an atom with less electrons than protons has a positive charge and one that has more electrons than protons would have a net negative charge.  And as we all know, negative and positive charges attract towards each other.

So work is performed by setting up an environment in which we have a negative and positive potential, and then supplying some means for those potentials to be solved.  Some way for them to join hands and unite.  Using a battery as an example, we setup through whatever means a group of atoms on one side of the battery plates that have a mostly positive charge and another side that contains mostly negative charged electrons.  These two charges sit unhappily until they either all escape, or until you supply some means for them to flow.   They have no care of what you are doing while they move, they are only concerned with taking care of the difference in potential.  However, mankind has learned to take advantage of this movement of electrons and we perform work with it.  We light bulbs in our homes, make our computers tick and so on.

There are all sorts of these types of energy, heat and magnetism are a few other examples.  All of which setup some type of difference in pressure, and cause electrons to flow from one place to another while we use that movement for work.

So as an example, we’ll look at Hydrogen production to try to solve this misused concept of Over Unity. Water is formed because Oxygen only has 6 electrons in its valence shell and would like to have 8.  Hydrogen happens to have only 1 electron in its valence shell and would like to have 2.  So if you get 2 Hydrogen atoms to hook up to 1 Oxygen atom, you have a water molecule. 

So as an example, mankind many years ago, discovered that if they ignited Hydrogen gas it explodes violently.  Its around 3 times more powerful than gasoline and we have 2 of the little guys in every molecule of water.  Not to mention our entire universe is made up of Hydrogen with it being one of the elements found in greatest order throughout the universe. Keeping in mind of course that upon igniting it, you have to have Oxygen present and that it’s this phase of the two joining hands again that makes the bang.

So rock man comes along and says man, I wish I could get that there Hydrogen out of that liter of water so I could burn it in my stove.  So he starts to beat the water violently with a stick.  This method after an hour and a lot of trouble releases a few atoms into the air and he captures them and burns them.  His neighbors are quite impressed.

However, a few years go by and another local rock man decides that he’s sick of beating the water because it takes too much time.  He decides that he’s going to use the heat of the sun and try to release it that way.  This continues through many years of people trying to get this hydrogen out of the water.  To the point that eventually someone figures out that if you direct a single electron at a certain angle towards the bucket of water, that a single Hydrogen atom will be knocked off and freed.

So the question then becomes, if we figured out, how to use a more efficient means of releasing the oxygen hydrogen bonds, have we accomplished Over Unity?  If I devised an AC motor that would run off the ether of space, have I created Over Unity?

To answer these questions we must first ask ourselves, have we created something from nothing?  Have we created the flow of electrons to power our electric motor out of the vacuum of space?  Or were they already there and we figured out how to harness them?

People state forever that you can’t power a car off of Hydrogen while creating the hydrogen as you drive down the road.  Is this true?  Why?  Why can’t I figure out a way to possibly harness the air itself to burn as a gas and not need to perform the functions of digging up oil?  In fact, if this were an example of Over Unity, then could we possibly be driving cars down the road today?  If this were a valid example then we must determine that the energy required to dig, drill, pump, ship, pump again and ignite in our engines would have to be more the amount of input, and we should have nothing left over to burn in our cars.  But this is not the case! 

People need to accept the fact that the brightest people on this earth do not understand magnetism.  They can explain how it flows and they can do really cool things with it, but at the end of the day, they can not supply a workable solution to the “What”.  We know how electrons flow through and around things and can do all sorts of cool things with them, but we don’t know what they are.  What created them and how exactly do they move?  We can even cause atoms to hook together and break apart, but we don’t know exactly what they look like or how they interact exactly.  And lets not even start with gravity.

The point is, there are many things in our universe that we do not understand and quite possibly never will.  Because I run my car next week off of air, does not mean I’m creating magic, nor does it mean that I’m getting something for nothing, which is behind the very statement of Over Unity.  What it means is that I’ve determined how to do something with what exists today that we didn’t know how to do yesterday.
It could be quite possible to burn water itself and not even break it apart to begin with.  But in the end, we’d be using water, which already exists.

When you show me someone that can work in a vacuum and create a water molecule when they started with nothing at all.  Well,  then we’d have some serious Over Unity happening.  Until that day, lets let this term be used where is should and think about our Hydrogen already being here and we’re just trying to determine a more efficient way to release it.  After all, if we better understood the atoms we might just figure out a more efficient way to have them let loose of each other, requiring less electrons to do the work.  Again, not “Over Unity”, its proper definition would be “More Efficient”. 

Anyone ready to go for a ride in a sail boat?

–glenn hancock

Well, after a lot of learning and a lot of testing I think that we are finally solving a lot of questions about types of plates, number of plates and so on.  This will be a rather long post, as I want to be sure that I describe my test setup as well as possible and then the results. 

I used my 4 Cell Plexy-glass container so that I could test all cells with water already filled and sealed without having to take everything apart to setup for each test.  I had a neighbor come over and write down results to allow me to keep things cooking as quickly as possible.  The cell setup is pictured below and I had cell GH-E001 consisting of 2 plates, cell GH-E002 consisting of 3 plates, cell GH-E003 consisting of 5 plates and cell GH-E004 consisting of our 6 tube sets.  Keeping in mind that subtracting 1 from each of the above number of plates tells you how many electrode sets we had in each cell.  With the exception of the GH-E004 cell which actually has 6 sets of electrodes. 

For a brief background, the goal of the tests were to try to determine if the number of plates or use of tubes improved output, or if the output is strictly a measure of current.  If it turned out to be a measure of surface area, we hoped to determine if there was some critical point at which things stopped improving. All tests were performed while hooked to my running F150 and voltage readings were verified constantly at the cell connections.  There were no changes in voltages within each test, however, voltages did change slightly as we increased draw due to larger and larger cell surface areas. Current readings were read through a separate meter to allow constant checking and recording of changes as they occurred. Water temperature as well as outside temperatures were recorded at the beginning and ending of each cell test, however, as mentioned above, the tests were performed rolling from one right to the other so no real temperature changes were recorded. 

Gas measurement was recorded in a 400mL Glass Jar.  This was chosen because it worked a lot better than trying not to squeeze a plastic bottle while performing the capture test.  The Jar was marked from bottom at 100mL increments and all tests were performed between the 100 and 200mL lines.  Line was fed into Jar without getting any water inside it, allowing for immediate and consistent test results.  200mL line was placed at the exact water level as the water in my bucket to allow consistent readings at room pressure.  All capture tests were performed after allowing cell a couple minutes to get started and each was performed twice to insure proper measurements.

Bucket used was a 3 gallon square cat litter bucket, allowing me to pin the jar square in the corner of the bucket to prevent it from moving or becoming unlevel.  200mL line held at water level throughout each capture. I took my time with the setup to be sure everything was consistent between each cell capture and I feel pretty good that these results could easily be duplicated if needed.  Earlier test results I couldn’t say this because I wasn’t paying as much attention to jar placement and such. So, on to the exciting part: We have all but proved that cell output is related to the amount of current running through the cell and nothing to do with plates, spacing or tubes.  In all tests, the 2 plates which gave you 1 anode and 1 cathode performed better than all other cells.  It was nothing to write home about but was consistently around 15% more efficient.  I suspect that this is the case, due to less loss due to the extra joints and surfaces, but will continue to investigate.  Water level above the cell was proven consistently to be more efficient, by around 13%, with a 10mm height above the top of the plates versus a 1mm level above the plates.  As for my last test, I tested my theory about the cell continuing to heat up until it reached a short circuit state.  The test consisted of me boiling water and using it at 212 degrees as my cell water.  The thought was that as the cell ran the water would continue to heat up, pulling more and more current from the system.  This test was also run on the truck and surprisingly, heating the water some 70 degrees Celsius warmer than the previous tests, only increased the current by 22%, but did not increase the cell efficiency at all. After a period of only a few minutes the temperature in the cell began to decrease until it finally stabalized at around 68C.  All test results between all cells were within 5% of each other with the exception of the single cell unit being around 15% better.  It currently appears that adding KOH to a single cell device will result in the most productive output over all the designs that call for a great number of plates.  Now that we’ve ruled out all these complex designs, my next tests are going to be using electrolyte to see what we can get out of the cell and whether it improves efficiency.  I also want to see if using electrolyte with the timing circuits will allow me to increase efficiency, but not expecting much. 

In the end, its currently looking like we can increase the surface area to a huge size in order to split water with no catalyst, or we can use a catalyst with a very small cell design and be slightly more efficient.  So far we have not found the magic formula however. 

Oh, I almost forgot, cross hatching your cell as well as cell conditioning, also do not show noticeable increases in calculated output.  Keep in mind that I’m not comparing physical volumes here but rather mL/W/hr.  Of course in my tests the tubes output more gas in less time than any of the other designs.  However, once you calculate current draw to output, everything leveled out to the same, or pretty darn close.

Here are a couple images and I’m working on a video that I’ll be posting in the next few days.  These were taken with the top of the cell off after the tests were performed.

–glenn hancock

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