Prime Ideas

Its nice having your own blog, because you get the chance to voice opinions that others can only read for the most part.  Today’s topic?  The over used statements by most all of the people searching for other ways to power their homes and cars (by something other than oil), that the government’s and oil companies are killing off everyone that figures something out.  Or that they threaten, or otherwise prevent people from selling things, because they would compete with the oil companies.

A few facts might be in order here: 

1) Oil is not going to last forever.  If we don’t start looking for other ways to get around, then we’re fools.  The governments know this, the oil companies know this, and they are all out there looking for other ways to deal with the problem.

2) For devices to be declared as an answer, information must be supplied to allow others to test and determine if statements are true or not.

Stanley Myers and the Joe Cell dude are both two perfect examples of what I’m talking about here.  Stanley was supposedly killed off by the US government because he had figured out how to run a car off water. Joe, well Joe is just Joe, but those claiming to get his Cell to work, claim they are threatened and have to throw all their plans and work in the trash to save their families.  I’m sorry, but come on!  These people are just idiots!  I have found through a lot of research that 99% of the people claiming they were threatened with their lives, don’t even have anything that works.  So why on earth would you need to threaten them?  The Joe Cell crowd can not go a day without making claims of this nature, yet the Joe Cell is the single most retarded creation on earth.  The claims on that device don’t stop short of solutions for anti-gravity and speaking with God himself if you set it up correctly.  Yet every one of them claim they are scared they will be killed off.  All for a device that has never once been shown to do spit to anything other than your time and money.

Lets consider something else just as an example.  Today, and for many years, universities have been working on encryption processes that utilize properties of Quantum Physics to work.  If put into the market they would prevent anyone from tampering with or viewing data sent between two parties.  If you put this into perspective, I think this invention alone would be much more detrimental to any government than gasoline sales, yet the study and research goes on.  The government can’t kill off every person doing research on their cars and looking for a better way to power them.  Get over it!!

I’ve started setting up rules that have been proving to be very accurate for use in daily life.  Here is the one related to this topic:

If you talk to someone that say’s that he, or a friend, or even a friend of a friends sister’s step dad’s grandmother was threatened with their life if they did not quit research on other ways to power their cars, they are liars and idiots.  They give themselves way to much credit to think anyone is watching what they are doing.

To end, here is an example of why none of this matters.  Lets say that I create a new process that will let you run a car as is, off of hydrogen and produce it while going down the road.  Lets say this device costs $5.00 US dollars to purchase and you just plug it into the breather to handle the processes.  Even if the installation was extremely simple, you wouldn’t get 1% of the people in this country to purchase and install it.  The cars would still be built and sold as they are, and the few people you did get to install them, would be in a minority.  So why on earth would the government care?  They already see that things have to change and are starting to slowly get behind making that happen.  However, no one, and I repeat, no one has stepped up with a solution yet,  including Mr. Joe and Stanley Myers!

Have a good one,

-glenn hancock

Throughout my experiments with electrolysis processes, I’ve run across time and time again where people are calling the extracted gas “Brown’s Gas”.  I’ve been doing a little research lately as to why exactly we had to name the combined Hydrogen and Oxygen mixture after a Hungarian, that doesn’t seem to have even invented the generator, which is said to be using an “advanced alkaline electrolysis process”.  The gas is also touted as imploding instead of exploding and the methods used to make this determination don’t seem to be stated anywhere.  Also, it’s stated that the gas is extremely stable, ummm ok…

As usual, my disclaimer:  I could be completely wrong with my viewpoint here, but will share it nonetheless since this is my blog…  Water is water, and performing electrolysis on water, results in Hydrogen and Oxygen breaking apart and therefore combining.  It was not Brown that determined or developed this process as its been known for well over a hundred years.  Hydrogen alone, is a very stable gas, as long it’s alone… :-)  You mix it with oxygen and you have a bomb, not a stable gas.  No matter what process you use to break apart water, you will still end up with a very minimum of Hydrogen and Oxygen, maybe a little more if you have dirty water with Chlorine or something in it.  It’s physically impossible to get some other mixture of elements from water.  Brown claims that his gas (not sure why its his gas) only contains hydrogen and oxygen, but I guess he mixes it up special?  It is also physically impossible to mix up a solution special, its either mixed or its not.  If you have 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom, then they are just that, they are both in the same environment, mixed.

In fact, here are a few of the claims made: 

“There is no other method capable of producing such a gas. Brown’s Gas is a new product and there is no literature describing its properties, which are sufficiently different from a combined molecular hydrogen and oxygen gas mixture, in 2:1 proportion, to be significant in industrial and commercial applications. ” Brown, 1979

Yet, look at what they say here: Brown’s Gas is water separated into its 2 constituents by an advanced alkaline electrolysis process in a way that allows them to be mixed under pressure and then be burned together and safely in a 2:1 proportion. The process results in a gas containing ionic hydrogen and oxygen. When sparked, the gas recombines safely, by implosion, into water, collapsing in a vacuum/water ratio of 1,886.6/1.

So on one hand they claim it’s different than the 2:1 mixture, but a few paragraphs later, describe it as being exactly that.  Yet somehow they lend magic to its list of qualities in that it implodes instead of exploding.  They also state that its stable under pressure, but then so is everything else.  If you put something under enough pressure and don’t relieve that pressure you won’t get a bang out of anything. 

So, we have determined that Brown’s gas is a 100% mixture of hydrogen and oxygen and per their own claims is not made up of some other compound.  So the last thing we need to determine, is the claim of implosion.  They seem to make this claim based on the gas being special, however, they don’t provide any examples as to how it was determined that the gas implodes. 

Here is the statement supporting their claim to implosion: “The ratio 1,860:1 refers to the fact that when the gas is electrically sparked, it immediately returns to water. If the amount of gas sparked, and thus imploded could fill 1,860 units, then the amount of water produced by its implosion would then only fill one unit. The resulting space instantly becomes filled with a very high and particularly clean vacuum.”

Thinking about this, if I were to somehow burn hydrogen and oxygen inside a closed container (which wouldn’t burn, but would most likely explode under these conditions), wouldn’t I have a vacuum?  Because there would be nothing to fill the volume since we’ve converted the gas to liquid, loosing most as heat.  Explosion or Implosion is not important in this case because of the fact that we had a volume of gas, and now we have a smaller volume of water as well as loss due to heat.  So the resulting process would yield a vacuum.  But without some detail as to how they performed this particular experiment, it’s hard to say what the real facts are.  If you were to somehow light a match inside of an oxygen tank under pressure, and you contained that pressure which you’d have to in order to see results in the end that these people are claiming, you wouldn’t get any type of reaction.  Because if the tank was held at pressure and didn’t blow apart, nothing should happen.  Explosions happen when the oxygen tanks leak into the air, or explode apart.

After studying this, I see absolutely no way to lend credibility to these statements about Brown’s gas.  The statements don’t seem to have any scientific credibility to back them up and Brown’s gas would be better named: “Lazy Man’s Gas”, because in fact, it is a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen because we are all too lazy to develop a means of separating them…

–glenn hancock

Over the last few days I’ve been conducting tests on the new cell and container.  I’ve made a few changes from the original design, but overall, it’s the same.  See below for some updated shots of the cell or see the following link to read about the individual tests. 

http://www.primeideas.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51&sid=eb513fc1aacae18a9471b9c3cb809f55

From what I’ve seen so far, we are over 350% more efficient with this series capacitor design than with any other design I’ve tested so far.  However, efficiency doesn’t necessarily speak volumes for output.  Before we continue, lets clarify exactly what efficiency is and what it is not. 

When I perform my capture tests, I record all sorts of data such as the current being pulled during each capture, the voltage and whether or not it changes during the tests, the actual gas amounts, temperatures and so on.  All of these small pieces of information add up in some way to a mathmatical way of viewing each cell.  Without the information we’d be stuck giving opinions as to what works better than something else and I’m sure we all know what opinions are worth.  So whats the math you ask?  Well here it is in a quick easy to follow method.

First we need to know the amount of current and voltage being used during the test.  These two numbers multiplied together will actually show you how many watts per hour something requires.  The watt is a measure of power consumption, much like miles to the gallon in your car.  So the first thing we need to know is how many watts per hour is our cell consuming, and these two pieces of information help us see this.

Secondly, we need to know how much gas we are creating.  So far I’ve been sucessful in doing 100ml capture tests using water displacement.  At some point I’d like to get a flow meter calibrated for hydrogen gas in order to compare what I see using a meter, to what I get in the jar, but until I can afford such a device, I’ll stick to the jar.  Something to keep in mind when I tell you that I displace 100ml of water in X amount of time is that its not all hydrogen.  In fact, the vast majority of it is actually Oxygen.  In order to understand this, you would need to view your Periodic table (one happens to be attached to the right) to see that oxygen happens to be 8 times larger than hydrogen.  Now, while it is true that we have 2 times more hydrogen atoms in our gas than we have oxygen,  you can see that it still can’t make up the difference in volume.

Also note that a flow meter, calibrated for hydrogen, is going to actually show much more gas being sent through the meter than is actually moving past the sensor.  In fact, 6 times more gas, taking into account that two units represent true hydrogen atoms.  So to get any true test results for only hydrogen you’d either have to do the math, or seperate the gases at some point and only measure the one.

When I start my capture tests, I start a stop watch, and watch for the gas to push water out of my glass jar from between the 100ml line to 200ml and then I stop it.  The time measured is then divided into 100 which gives us how many ml we create per second.  I then multiply this number by 60 then by 60 again in order to get to hours.  The number we end up with is the number of ml of gas we create per hour.

Finally we divide the ml per hour by the watts per hour to get how many ml of gas we create per watt hour.  All of our earlier tests were showing an average of around 70ml/W/hr no matter what you did to them.  Adding more KOH into the water only made them produce more gas faster, but it didn’t make them more efficient.  Because, with the extra gas came much more hunger for those little electrons.

Now, onto our new test design recommended by Bob Boyce.  This design is showing numbers consistently over 350ml/W/hr using the exact same jar and methods above for capturing off the other test cells.  So it is more efficient to the tune of some 350%, than earlier models could ever dream of reaching.  However, as with everything good, there may be things that are a bit negative to offset.  So lets go through this a little deeper to see what happens.

With the older cells, it was possible to increase KOH solution and dramatically increase gas volume output.  As mentioned, it also increased current flow but it was possible none the less.  Because the new design uses a series capacitor type design, you are actually breaking the voltage down between plates.  This means that instead of running 13volts through each cell plate, we are only running approximately 2 volts.  And because we are also using distilled water in this design, the KOH is a necessity to even have anything at all happen.  Which means, that even at a 15% KOH level, we are still only pulling 1.9amps of current between each cell plate, and the only thing we can do to get more voltage is to move to a larger system or modify our current system to increase the voltage output.  Either process is not so hard to do, so its not a dead end, just something necessary to keep in mind.

But wait,  if we simply increase the voltage and change nothing on the cell,  will we loose our efficiency?  It’s known (supposedly) that around 2 volts is the most efficient voltage per cell.  So this might tell us that in order to improve output and keep the cell in the same order of efficiency we’d need to increase voltage and then increase the number of cells in order to keep the voltage to 2 volts per cell.  So with this design, it appears the answer to creating more gas is to continue to build larger and larger cells.

What makes this even more necessary however, is the fact that we are only producing 100ml of gas in 40 seconds.  At this level we couldn’t run a weed wacker, much less our cars.  So we have to figure a way to get more gas out in less time.  We’ve already established the fact that this method is much more efficient, however, now we need to figure out how to increase its output in a shorter period of time.  I suspect that our 300-350ml/W/hr that we recorded is going to hold true no matter what we do to output time, however, its our next big step.

I’ve also been conditioning the plates and hope that this will increase efficiency like everyone claims it will, however, to this point in time, after over 12 hours of running this cell, I have seen absolutely no evidence that the efficiency or output of the cell has changed at all.  This could as usual change as testing goes on, but I’m trying to write this blog as an entry into my current testing, not the end result.  So you’ll have to stay tuned to see what happens.  After all, its possible this blog entry could go down in the “wish I didn’t write that” pile…

–glenn hancock

We are getting close to doing capture tests on the new cell.  Below you’ll see a couple pictures of the cell and where we are at.  Today I am doing conditioning runs on the cell with a 5-10% Mixture of Distilled water and KOH.  When plugging the battery in the cells only pulled about .11A but after only 5 minutes they’d gotten up to 1.53A.  So far it looks like it works a lot like a capacitor in the sense that if I unplug the juice it continues to operate as if it still has power.  Other cells just stopped immediately when you unplug them.

The activity we’re seeing is not anything to write home about, however, my solution of KOH is very weak compared to what we are looking for.  We have around 1.9V per cell running off my 12V battery and charger.  At this point I’m not running off the truck as I don’t really care about anything staying consistent.  I’ve been told that the cells need to get conditioned so we’re going to go through that process first.  glenn_aircooled on the forum has built cells like this and according to his measurements he’s reported, the cell does get more productive the more he runs it.  As a result we’re going to do what he’s doing and hopefully see the same results.

I’ve never mixed KOH anywhere close to 5%, so the fact that we have huge 8″x8″ plates and are only seeing 1.56A is impressive, although the output is very weak at present.  I’m a little concerned that things are going to heat up quickly when i start to approach the 27% mixture that I’m headed for.  But we’ll see what happens.

Here are a few video clips you might find interesting.

Test-046 This video clip shows how I capture my gas volume for those interesting in trying to be consistent with our comparisons. 

Test-047 This clip shows the 4 cell unit setup and describes some of the tests and things captured.

Test-048 This video clip shows what happens when you add KOH to the solution with the 3 plate cell.

Test-049 This video shows the initial construction peices of the Series Capacitor Cell.

Test-050 Here is the new Series Capacitor Cell being conditioned with 5% KOH solution.

Test-051 Here is the new Series Capacitor Cell being conditioned with 10% KOH solution.

Test-052 Some final thoughts and a few extra tests that I thought were interesting on the Series Capacitor Cell.

Here is a picture of the cell inside the container I built.  The top is not sealed here but just sitting on the top to show what it will look like.

Here is a picture of the cell at work showing the bubbles on top with 5% solution.

Here is a picture of the cell at work showing the bubbles on top with 10% solution.

–glenn hancock

I hate that I’m even writing this post but I see no way out.  I have been participating on many different forums on the Internet where many people are honestly trying to get information on running their cars off hydrogen.  I’ve tried to share my experience with testing some of these designs in order to prevent people from wasting their time and money on devices that will not work.  Yet time and time again, I have gotten kicked off the forums and all my posts removed.

Not because I was wrong, and not because I started fights or was ugly to people, but simply because I stated experimental facts instead of trying to sale bull shit devices that will never work.  Its become obvious to me that this site and its content will eventually be alone in providing an open forum for people to discuss these issues.

So far the yahoo group for hydroxy@yahoogroups.com and OUPower com have both performed this sad form of moderation.  Neither took the time to explain to me why they did it, or what exactly I said that was so wrong.  In fact, they removed the threads in the middle of honest conversations so that their own forums and discussions don’t make sense any more.

Its actually quite funny at how thick, ignorance is on this subject, and how the few crooked people are able to guide others, trying to learn, into spending time and money on things that won’t work.  The few of us that actually test what they are saying, and try to share the truth, are cut off at the knees, unable to help anyone out.  So the only hope that exists is for us to keep testing and sharing information here.  Hoping that others in search will happen upon this site in order to gain more valuable information and of a more honest nature.

–glenn hancock