Prime Ideas

Well, today is the day.  I finally finished the sealing project and things look really good.  As mentioned before, pressurizing the system is not going to be possible due to the flexing of the plexy glass but bubble tests and volume tests should be just fine.  At first I thought I still had a problem with it leaking but later realized that the hose was full of water so I’d get one huge series of bubbles and then nothing for another couple minutes while it pushed all the water back out of the test.  I then built a water bottle to view the bubbles in and it worked much better.

1 minute bubble test was not possible to get.  I even tried to video tape and then slow down to try to count bubbles but they went by too quickly to capture between frames.  Also, after playing around I’ve yielded the bubble count idea useless due to the fact that the size of your hose, depth inside water vessel and so on, all determine how many and how quickly bubbles come out of the tube.

So the next thing I did was setup a volume test.  The test consists of a bottle marked off in 100mL increments and then filled with water.  As the gas is pushed into the vessel and the water removed I time it.  I start at the 100mL line and count off to the 200mL line.  Then again between 200 and 300 to make sure we are consistent.  Each test was run 4 times a piece and almost within the second results were recorded.  Oh, the results…  47 sec for 100mL of gas.  And it makes no difference whether the anode is inside or outside for the electrodes.  Exact same measurements were taken both ways.  We were running 6.23A and 12.4V.  When testing the 5 plate design we got 100mL in 1min and 40 seconds and pulled 2.32A and 12.4V.

A FEW INTERESTING FACTS:

Looking at the math from the other day that I posted, we calculated the differences between the 2 designs in order to try to determine which is performing the best, given its current surface area/amperage combinations.

Here’s the math:
  Tube Design:
    100mL Gas / 47 seconds = 2.13mL/sec
    2.13mL/sec * 60 seconds = 127.66mL/min
    127.66mL/min * 60 minutes = 7659.58mL/Hr
    6.23 Amps * 12.4 Volts = 77.252Watts/Hr
    7659.58mL/Hr / 77.252Watts/Hr = 99.15mL/Watt/Hr

  5 Plate Design:
    1 minute 40 seconds = 100 seconds
    100mL Gas / 100 seconds = 1mL/sec
    1mL/sec * 60 seconds = 60mL/min
    127.66mL/min * 60 minutes = 3600mL/Hr
    2.32 Amps * 12.4 Volts = 28.768Watts/Hr
    3600mL/Hr / 28.768Watts/Hr = 125.14mL/Watt/Hr

So the plate design appears to be 26% more efficient than the tube design at this point.

Now for all the video footage…

Test-039: This video clip shows side by side comparisons of the anode and cathodes being switched from inside to outside.  Also shows the cell from the top and side views during each test to show what is going on.

After doing the above tests it appears that the anode being inside does in fact yield the best results.  At first it appears the anode on the outside works better, but after time the other scenario yields more bubbles where the anode on the outside just stays the same over time.

Test-041: Here are anode inside and outside Top View results after 10 minutes.

Test-042: Explosion Test for you junkies…

Test-040: This test shows our 5 plate unit running.  While its output is less than the cell, you’ll notice the bubbles coming out are a lot faster.  I am at this point thinking that the flat cell may very well out perform the pipe design in side by side comparisons but we’ll have to wait until I finish the 12 plate layout required to get us the same surface area of the pipes. 

Test-043: This test shows what the cell does when it has less water over the top of the pipes/plates.  It appears that it actually creates less gas in this configuration as it generates  bubbles at the same level within the water.  Less water, less bubbles… Need to do gas volume tests to see for sure.

Test-044: This test shows the cell configured and capped and ready for its first real measurement run.  Also tried to explain an earlier comment about the electrodes themselves appearing to be making hydrogen.

Test-045: This test shows the discoloration in the water and how it sits on top of the cell and works its way down.  So whatever it is seems to float.

–glenn hancock

Well, we are making a little progress in that the cell is sealed now.  I built an assembly of clamps and placed aluminum angle around the outside edges to help it stay flat and not flex.  I found out when doing tests using air, that pressure tests are out of the question.  The cell walls actually expand almost immediately upon adding the air and the wall dividers seperated from the outside edges of the tank.  So while we should be sealed well enough to do our bubble tests, I don’t think we will be able to do any real pressure tests.

A couple observations and then I’ll show the video clips. 

Plates versus Pipes:

I’ve done the surface area calculations on my pipes and here is the math.  Please check and make sure I’m not doing something wrong here:

Anode: 1.25 OD 5″ long: 2(pi) * (1.25/2) * 5 = 19.63 per pipe * 6 pipes = 117.78 square inches

Cathode: 1.42 ID 5″ long: 2(pi) * (1.42/2) * 5 = 22.31″ per pipe * 6 pipes = 133.86 square inches

If you remember from an earlier post, the plates have a surface area of 12.48 square inches per plate.  Doing the math it would appear that I need a 12 plate unit to have the same surface area as my pipe design and I plan to start building that in the next week or so.

So, here are the videos of the completed cell along with a few small tests.

Test-033:  This is a cell construction video to show the finished cell with its lid and connections.

Test-034:  This video shows the cell connected normally with anode (inside) and cathode (outside ).

Test-035: This video shows the cathode connection bolt and how its creating hydrogen itself.  Which is rather confusing to me as to how or why its doing this.  It would appear that we should be generating off the outside of the tubes as well if its reacting to the bolt like it seems to be.  But we don’t see this…

Test-036: Now we’ve reversed the anode and cathode connections to see if there is any difference as to which tube ends up being the largest.  Can you tell?

Test-037: View from the top of the cell (bubbles) with the first being normal hookup with cathode being on teh outside tubes and the second half of the video with the outer tube being the anode.  One thing to note however is the water color.  You will see the water almost instantly start turning a darker yellow when I reverse these connections.  I don’t know if the water reaches a point where it does this on its own, or if it has something to do with the connections.  Will need to do further testing…

I’m not sure which configuration performs the best between the inner and outer tubes being anodes or cathodes.  Here is a short video clip that cycles back and forth a few times but I didn’t do a very good job of keeping the same perspective so its hard to tell.  I’ll try to do a better job of video taping it later this weekend and see if we can tell which is best.

Test-038: Cycles back and forth between anode and cathode being the outer tubes.

–glenn hancock

I’m starting to find that I’m going to have to possibly retract a few of my earlier statements concerning the water and the conditioning of the plates.  Without changing anything except for putting tap water instead of well water and cleaning out my test cell so that I could video tape a clearer image, it appears the cell is starting to perform better and better.

Here is a short video of clear tap water. 12.6V battery with no charging system hooked up and no timing circuit.  A little over 4A of juice and what does it remind you of?  In fact, I’m starting to now question the actual output of Myer’s and Dave Lawton’s cells.  I have not started capping and measuring mine yet but dang if the video doesn’t look pretty close to what they showed.

Test 030: Video of new cell G02 in fresh tap water hooked to straight DC without Pulsing circuit.

And of course we have to finish off this post with a few less impressive posts.  Again, you will see a big difference from the above posted video and these which were run hours earlier.  The cell seems to be getting more productive as time goes on.  I did however notice a problem.  The longer the cell operates the hotter it gets.  Nothing too bad, but it does get warmer.  And the warmer it gets the more conductive the water and the more Amps run through it.  And as this goes on you end up with a runaway current. Something I’ve seen many times with KOH but it appears its going to be an issue here as well.

Test 029: This video shows the nasty foam on top of the water. 

I did notice after cleaning my cell up that the stainless wire I’m using to connect my cell electrically are rusting a little bit.  So I’m going to have to replace them and I’m not sure if its actually the reason for all the foam or not.  Not thinking so but we’ll have to wait and see.

Test 029.5: This video shows what things look like after the cell has stopped running.  The foam goes away on its own and the water is an orange color.  Entire cell coated with a slimmy substance.

After letting the cell run for another hour in the tap water, I video taped what the top of the water looks like again.  You’ll notice that the water is clearer than before and we only have slight foam formations in the very corners of the cell.  Also notice that the bubble formations on top of the water are more better and much larger than anything we’ve seen before so it does appear the cell is improving with time.

Test 031: Cell G2 after running for 1 hour in clean tap water.  Would you drink it?

Test 032: Cell G2 after running for 2 hours in tap water.  Cleaning out after this test and starting over again to see if we get less foam on 3rd 2 hour run.

–glenn hancock

Well, I’ll let you guys decide, but tonight I did a few extra things.  One thing I did was I hooked up the battery charger to see what effect it would have on the tests.  The battery is pretty full on its own, but as mentioned earlier the charger itself introduces some AC type current into the cell and I wanted to see if it effected anything, since all my earlier tests with the plates were done with the charger running.  Tomorrow I plan to actually hook it to my truck to see what effect the alternator has on the system, as I suspect its going to be a little more notable.

Tonight the main object of the test was to see how the cell performed when positioned as I designed it, and positioned upside down where the plexy plate is at the bottom of the cell instead of the top.  I’ve video taped everything and actually have a short clip of side by side comparisons between the two tests.  I honestly think the cell performs a good bit better with the plexy at the bottom of the tank, and may start performing all my tests with it in this position.  But I’ll wait to hear from some of you and your opinions.

Another thing I did in the first video clip is I filmed the cell running from the bottom.  This new cell container I built is proving to be very valuable, allowing me to film at angles not available before.  The main goal was set in motion when I noticed that another experimenter (Ron) had put plugs in his center anodes.  When asked why, he supplied me pictures of the before and after, and its actually quite impressive.  He told me that the thing that made him do this to begin with, was he saw the bubbles flowing down inside the tube.  As you’ll see from this clip, there is no flow inside my center anode tubes, but as soon as I figure out a clean way to plug my cell I’m going to test that as well.

Test-027: This test shows the cell upright and upside down as well as shots from the bottom of the cell looking up through it as it runs.

Test-028: This is a side by side comparison between right side up and upside down to help see the difference.

One note that I’m still trying to figure out from Ron, is that I think he’s running his tests with tap water which has a lot of extra chemicals in it and would increase his current flow compared to my well water.  As soon as I hear back on that I’ll let everyone know, but it would be like me adding a little KOH to my cell which would increase flow, but also temperature and everything that goes with it.  It would at least explain why his smaller cell is out performing my larger one which in concept should not be possible if we were both doing the same things.  And there has to be something turning his water so nasty so quickly.

See the forum under Finished Projects for updated pictures of Ron’s tests.

Well, tonight was the night.  I finally got the pipes fully assembled, spaced and wired.  I’ve attached some shots of the completed assembly as well as a few video clips to show how it performed.  Its nothing close to what Dave had shown in his very short video clip so we still have a ways to go, but I think this is the best test so far with using only water with no electrolytes added.

We were pulling 2.89A with a 12.4V battery which amounts to around 36W.  Straight DC with no pulsing circuit.  I didn’t video the pulsing circuit because at this point its a major joke.  When I plug that thing in with things set on their highest settings my amps go down to .4A and everything pretty much halts.  I will say one thing that I noticed however related to the pulsing circuit. When I had it plugged in, there were spots where it would shoot out large bubbles very quickly and then would sit a few seconds and would then shoot out more bubbles.  However, its impossible for anyone to tell me that they sat here and just played with settings until it performed like Dave showed in his video clip.  There are so many different combinations that you could spend a lifetime trying to find the right combination.

I’m therefore looking for some of the other pieces that I can add to the circuit to see how they effect it.  The pulsing circuit by itself is just not doing what people are claiming. And the mere fact that absolutely none of them tell you what they did to tune it proves to me that they have never done it and are only talking.

Anyway, here are a few shots of the final cell:

Here are a few video clips:

Test 024: This clip shows the cell fully assembled before entering the water.

Test 025: This clip shows the cell in the water for the very first time.

Test 026: This clip shows the cell running one more time for the night after being cycled a few times